A definite great read….

I’m not denying that the formula for Pokemon is easily broken. On the contrary, since I learned about EVs, IVs, etc, I’ve used those methods extensively. Quite frankly, if you want to get much of anywhere in the post-story game play, including Battle Frontiers, Battle Towers (in games lacking a Frontier), or competitive play with a friend, then it’s almost required of you to not only learn, but embrace the leveling system we’ve been presented with by GameFreaks/Nintendo. My problem with your statement about how Pokemon is a “cookie cutter” game at the upper tiers is simply this: so are MMORPGs.

Object if you want, but here’s the deal. Anybody, and I do mean ANYBODY who plays an MMORPG at the higher levels and DOESN’T use the best equipment, the best spells, the best skill set, etc., for their given character class, will either never get a party, or will never complete any of the highest missions without a RIDICULOUS amount of luck, because their sub-par equipment, skills, etc., given the level they’re playing at, simply don’t stack up against those who are willing to play according to meta game rules. You want to complain about seeing the same Pokemon types at the highest tiers? Okay, but isn’t that the same as seeing the same weapons and armor at high tiers in WoW, FFXI, PSU, etc? You want to complain about seeing the same strategies and move sets on multiple teams of Pokemon at high tiers? Okay, but isn’t that the same as everybody using the same high-power classes (no, all classes in WoW are NOT equal, nor are they equal in any other given MMORPG…trust me, I lived with one of your type for 3 semesters, and all he EVER did was show me statistical differences on the multiple MMORPGs he played…they are NOT equal, and, great as a wish for equality may be, you give this idea to an actual developer, they won’t come out equal), or the same skill-sets at high tiers? Amazingly, if you really look at your idea for a “balanced” MMORPG mechanically constructed Pokemon MMO, rather than sticking to the classic Pokemon mechanics, you’re not creating anything better, but simply another form of tier-based gameplay. (Btw, I’m not ONLY pulling this from my friend, either, as I’ve played PSO, PSU, FFXI, and WoW over the years myself. I never got addicted to them, but I played far enough in, and read enough “Perfect Character Class Construction” strategies for each of them to realize that, contrary to your loving statements in this design, they’re just as, if not MORE, broken than the Pokemon system. At least in Pokemon, you can CHOOSE how a particular ‘class,’ aka Pokemon, will level up, down to the Stat Point, if you put the effort in.)

Pokemon has its flaws structurally whenever you get to the higher levels. This isn’t something I’m going to deny. However, for you to state that giving this system, which has worked perfectly for over ten years now, mind you, a complete and total overhaul, turning it into a cookie-cutter (ooh, I used your word) copy of the style of every other MMO to date, then you’re bound to attract attention from fans like myself. I, too, have been playing Pokemon since I was young. I was probably in 4th or 5th grade myself when I first bought a Pokemon game. I’ve played nearly every game since, and I’ve witnessed what’s improved the system, and what’s worsened it. However, overall, the system still works perfectly for most of the fans.

As I said earlier, to turn a Pokemon MMO into the exact same type of game as WoW, EQ, FFXI, PSO, PSU, etc., would simply remove one set of cookie-cutter meta-game rules, and place another where the original lay previously. Players of any sort of competitive game will ALWAYS find ways to discover meta-game strategies within the bounds of the game’s rules, no matter how hard you try to balance them. Thus, if you want to create a POKEMON MMO, then don’t degrade it from its own nature as a Pokemon title by forcing the laws of WoW and Co. onto it.

As a closing statement, I will admit that certain aspects of the MMO style will need to be implemented in order to keep players from abandoning this in lieu of the simplicity of the handheld titles. Restrictions on zones, tiers of Pokemon available, or something of that sort would be necessary, so that when a player reached that milestone in their journey, they felt a sense of accomplishment, and were willing to continue paying in order to play something they could easily play for nothing more than a cartridge cost normally. Essentially what I’m saying here, Justane, is that, despite the fact that you’re entirely off-base by claiming that MMOs aren’t broken, and that for a Pokemon MMO to work, it would have to copy aspects of other MMOs to the letter, you do have a few good points. However, the majority of your gameplay discussion completely insults the Pokemon mechanics thus far, and in that respect, your game idea is crap. Later, and I do hope you’ll take at least a little bit of this to heart before the next time you decide to butcher something that’s worked for the last decade by trying to make it a slave to another genre’s generalities.

P.S. You don’t look like a super nerd? I’m sorry, but if that’s a picture of you, then you look just like every stereotypical super nerd I’ve ever met in my life. Don’t make a stupid claim like that, and then post a picture of yourself that proves otherwise…moron.

P.P.S. I will not be returning to this board. Quite frankly, I was searching for actual, avid players of the games to supply heart-felt, intelligent concepts for a Pokemon MMO, and your page happened to pop up. The entire reason I posted a response to this is that, being a fan of the series (and not even a die-hard one at that: I play plenty of other genres as I see fit, and as I have time to, so I’m completely privy to genres aside from Pokemon’s particular RPG style), I was extremely insulted that you feel the need to destroy the gameplay which has worked for so long, and has drawn in so many fans. To completely remove the core gameplay elements in that fashion would lose about as many players as if you were to place Duke Nukem inexplicably as a cameo in the story, or if you were to make the story revolve around Pokemon becoming politicians or something along those lines: you would lose the vast majority of the fans, and those you would gain simply wouldn’t stay with the game for long, because it would just be another MMO conquest to them. As I said though, the only reason I posted here is because your idea, for the most part, blows…at least in the gameplay department. I won’t be returning to this, however, so feel free to “flame” me as much as you want (or whatever ludicrous internet slang you have to use in order to avoid using the term slander). I won’t come back and argue with you, so if you really want to complain about my opinions that badly, do yourself a favor, and contact me yourself. This blog requested my email to post, so I’m assuming that you, being the blog master, can acquire that information somehow, and can contact me yourself if you truly feel that offended that I shat on your concept. Well, tootaloo, and I’ll be praying that, should a Pokemon MMO ever appear, it doesn’t succumb to the chains you attempted to put on it with this blog.

It’s a very long time since i’ve played pokémon the last time but i can still remember how good it was, Really a masterpiece. I’ve have thought in your way many times and how great this could actually be. I mean seriously, if they really got this to work in some way, i really think it would be bigger than wow. I mean common, pokemon out in the fields, trainers running around trying to get experience from other trainers, tournaments everyone trying to get by with their pokémon just to be the best. Diffrent pokemon with diffrent skills/stats. I think people would really love it, insted of trying to get that epic set u always wanted, u would try to get that pokemon you just can’t seem to find. To beat ur friends let’s say magikarp(Yeahyeah ironic bullshit i know ^^ ) with that diggler. Hell yes. I like almost everything u wrote. But i think we sould leave the pokémons without armor and etc, it’s just not Pokémon :p But stuff like holding something to heal themself 1 time o or 2 during battle sounds good. I like how u want the trainer to get experience and leveling to. But seriously, lvl 100 seems to be a bit much :p Maybe level 20-25? Then they can enter certain guilds and certain pvp areas and etc? And some areas like the gameboy games locked until u have certain badges/aprovals ?

Graaaaaaaaaah! So much to discuss I

really really liked ur story of this! It’s so detailed and well written. We’ll probably never see this though, cause of nintendos ownage, i love nintendo, but this is too big for them, it really is. So i guess it’s just dreams. But i like dreaming them with you!

My dream is a Pokemon MMORPG that have WoW-Grapich and you are controlling like it is in WoW with action bars etc. It would be so great! And when you battle, is it you that controle the pokemon, you can jump and do everything and if you are a pickachu you can click on the eneny and click on action button 1 and use Thunder shock , and when the enemy are weak you can controle the trainer again to throw a Pokeball

My example, and sorry for my bad english.

Both factions will run around in the same citys but have different quests and be hostile outside of city’s.

Dont flame my idea tho, just came up with it =)

Also, wtf is with the armor? Shuckle has an almost-impervious defense, why boost it with a shield? And a Ghastly cant hold a shield! What about bastidon? it IS a shield!

Also, becuase of the 6 poke limit, each and every team has a weakness. If you got a team of dialgas, your dead. You could wipe the floor with 400+ pokemon, but you are still weak to ground. Any ground thats an ioda faster could very well be a 1hko.

Even if you balance the types, you could still be vulnerable. A curse-tank could halt you forever. A pecial spweeper could blast through your defence, unless your opponent had a special sponge.

And you remark about there being only 3-4 strategies, well I dispute that. When I was fighting on netbattle, i LOST (with my interwebs based team) to a sableye. This little s*** has no weaknesses, but horribly pitiful stats. IT CLEANED MY ENTIRE TEAM! /emphasis

The way your saying it, a level 50 Squirtle with a + 100 to all stats epic armor set and a sword of pointy death, with a level 100 water trainer, could smash a well organized well balance, non cookie cutter team, with all level 100s. *end of long sentence*

Have you tried playing D/P or a battle sim like netbattle? Try it, then talk to me.

Try not to over-process it, pokemon isn’t a supposed to be a super-complex game.

I want them to make a Poke’MMO too, but i’m worried they’ll wreck it. ,xD

And this brings me to point three.
This game has a much better chance of making it if the designers started from the ground up, and had nothing to do with Pokemon. Mostly because there are things in Pokemon that just plain don’t make sense.
How the hell do your Pokemon get from the wild to your computer?
How the hell do Pokemon fit IN the computer?
How the hell does Kangaskan hide in tall grass?
Various Pokemon off-shoots have answered these questions, true. But incorporating them into gameplay would officially kill all things Pokemon about it.

Now picture this:
You leave out of a store, and run off towards the nearest forest. There are a few vicious monsters that will aggro if you come near them, but mostly they mind their own business unless attacked. You call up some of your buddies and you head into an instance-like place: Kanga’s Nest. You and your buddies fight through monsters (who are already aggroed from your encroaching on their land) and finally come to the end, where you have to take down the gargantuan Kangaskan. When she is defeated you are each given an egg, which will hatch into a baby Kanga. If you decide you don’t want to carry the egg around currently, you pick to send it back to the “Ranch” a place that houses your Montsers for you, keeping them fed, etc.
During your journey, your Starter leveled. You then can open it’s menu and Pick your stats you want to level up. Of course this could cause some cookie cutter ness, but if you have unique stats, you can unlock unique evolutions or moves.
An all strength, no speed Rattatta? He learns Earthquake.

Pokemon is great, but could be so much better.

Just as the man said, the 2d games don’t work for MMO. I think that if you made Pokemon to be an MMO, it A) would end up exactly like the 2d games, just slightly better or B) would be totally un-Pokemon, and people wouldn’t play it.

Mankind Hates Change, but Adores Novelty.

Make a New Pokemon, People will say the old way was better.
Pull a “If you liked Pokemon, you’ll love this” and spin it your own way, People will give it a shot.

Just saying.

Oh, and for those that might actually care, I am going to College to Study Game design, and plan on making (At least a solo romp) a Monster Game.

Though that is several years down the road, and I probably will have been ousted before then.

I’ll never send it to a company though. I know it’d never get used. It’s too much work for them, and they would much rather do more basic ones, like the ones they do now, since they make just as much cash off those. It’d be amazing though.

you should make it lol that would awesome tho, i been a pokemon fan since i was 5 yrs old. iam now 17,

but the IDEA”S!!!! for that is awesome you should send that to a game company and talk to them about it.

but you should also put something in there about, Creating Style of your trainer. that would be awesome

I would never actually make a game such as this. I’m expressing a dream of mine with this. I have just always imagined a real pokemon MMO. I just wouldn’t express enough interest to learn how to code, and pitch an idea like this, because it wouldn’t happen. I’m well aware it would never happen. The majority of current pokemon fans are just like, “Heh heh, I’m going to make the same team as everyone else on the newest pokemon handheld, but with a tiny tweak, and then fight the same types battles over and over.” Nintendo and Gamefreak know this and know that they don’t have to spill a cent more money than they already do into the games, since they’ll sell millions of copies anyways.

The entire point of a game like this would be to go away from the basic premise of the current pokemon games.

And Acamus, I don’t see why the trainer would have to level a lot faster, I’d see him as leveling a lot slower, since you’re leveling more than 1 pokemon at once (6, I’d expect from the average player), and they level a lot faster than the trainer. If the trainer leveled faster, than you’d wind up 100 as a trainer, while still having the 6 pokemon in the 30s or something. I wanted it set up so that the trainer levels slower so that s/he’ll stay relatively the same level as the 6~ pokemon s/he is leveling. Once they hit the high levels, then if they want to switch out one, and level another pokemon, they’d at least have the xp boosters by then to make the leveling faster, but while also not leveling past as they catch them up.

Again, to anyone who comments, “They should just make them the same as old games.” That’s not the point of this post. They will always make the handhelds. If they made an MMO that was like the handhelds…it would be horrible, and would not keep people playing. They’d get to 100 and all sit there with the same pokemon as the next joe-shmo, then quit because it’s boring. Very few people in the current games get to 100 with 6 pokes and continue to play a lot competitively. Far less do so with more than 6 pokes at 100 (without cheating). The “MMO” would just turn in to the pokemon games, but with people walking around you. There would be no motivation to even be around the other people. Just level in the PVE, and get to 100 would be all they wanted in that way.

In the system I’d see, there would be many reasons to continue playing. For starters, there are three ways to play the game altogether. Breeder, Professions, Contests, and Plain Trainers. Even in that system, there are sub-systems. For Breeders, there would be the types who would breed for battle, other who would breed for other people, and some that may breed for contests.
For professions (something I didn’t really reach yet in my main post), there are people who would make types of Pokeballs, food, potions, battle gear, contest gear, breeding equipment, and etc. There would be a profession branch likely for making battle things for the pokemon (pokeballs, healing, battle gear), then things for the trainer (battle gear, stuff for breeding, etc), and then making things for the contests (decorations, costumes, backdrops, etc).
Then there would be the contests. That would be it’s own thing, since a pokemon raised for battle may be horrible at contests. It’d be a whole different play style from battling.
Lastly, normal training. You could play solely through battling others in the battle zones (or normal world) and leveling that way. You could play solo and just level your pokemon in the environment, and battle the gym leaders to reach the Elite Four and other such “bosses.” Then, you can also run in the gym circuit, which would be battles in certain level ranges that lets you join the gyms and train. There could be battles and such that let you when certificates of *insert thing here* that show that you excelled in that gyms type. The gym system would be more an end game thing though, as a reason to go back and level lower pokemon again.

All those would get you to level 100 in some sort, some slower than others, some faster than others. You have different level meters though. One for Battling (solo or pvp), one for each profession, and one for contests. That gives many possibilities and re-playability chances. In the current handheld (and console) gaming systems, you reach 100 with EV training, and make that “perfect” party, then don’t have much else to do. You can battle other people (which is fun at first), but then after a while, it becomes the same thing over and over. This would lose customers fast, and an MMO is about keeping people hooked and playing a lot for a long time. It would be a huge waste of money to make and MMO that had a solid final ending that was as easy to reach as it is in the current systems.

Think it through a little more. I also stress that I know that things would change if it (somehow and miraculously) got done. I don’t know everything about gaming systems, but I know more than enough to know that it’s possible, and would be enjoyed throughly by people, even if they had prior bad bias towards Pokemon.

-JAEC

The moment you mentioned WoW I started to imagine that your perception of the game in your mind is likely WoW-type graphics. As I don’t think you have millions of dollars, that is never going to happen. Do you even have any experience making games? In all likelihood if you were to actually commit 10 years of your life to making this a reality it would likely become an online browser game, or a 2d game with really bad graphics and you would have had to make so many compromises because of lack of possibilities with coding that your game would end up being much more simple than the one you described.

Or is this a “Man, I wish there were an rpg like…” type of thing? lol

So it may take a while at first, but if it didn’t, you would have far too many people at level 100 still being clueless to the game mechanics (much like how many people who play the pokemon games for gameboy have never heard of EV training). But once you’re there, you’ll be able to raise new teams much faster, and more efficiently. Take for example any other MMO. First time through, you think you did fine, but then when you go to raise a new character (or class) to the max level, you realize how much you missed out on, and how noobish you were. (For example, when I first raised my Hunter in WoW to 60, I didn’t know really the strength was useless until I was almost 60, but now that I’ve raised him to 70, and have many other alts, along with another almost 70, I know far more and see how much I missed the first time through).

I also want to stress that this game will NOT be a race to get a bunch of pokemon to 100, it’ll be trying to get a team of pokemon and maybe some extras to roughly 100, and then make them more powerful with better gear and skills. Since once you hit 100, it won’t be like hitting a ceiling, you’ll be opened up to a whole new part of the game. New dungeons, new arenas, new stadiums, new story-lines, new mechanics. So basically, having it like this will give the game longevity and re-playability. If you notice, in the gameboy games, usually once you have your ideal team and you battle with them a little, the game is over, and there isn’t anything else you can do but do it all over again. And even then, you can’t relive the story line again without starting the game over and losing your past one.
In this MMO, you can “train” an apprentice (how many, I don’t know), and this will essentially be like having an alt. That would let you raise another trainer up again. Maybe this time, you want to focus on PvP instead of PvE? Than go for it and base your stat increases on that. Maybe you want to base your leveling on a job, than do that. All and all, it’s all about re-playability and longevity.

I know full well about EV/IV and it’s fine, but that’s not what I’d look for in an mmo.

The reason it would take so long to get to 100 is not because it’s a race to get there and “pwn” it’s because it’s about the experience and having fun with the game. It wouldn’t be about racing to 100 with EV trained pokes that once you get them there, it’s just over, and you can’t do much else. I like how things I have are in this because it’s different than what they’ve done the past 10 years.

I would rather see people choose teams based on what they like and such, since it gets so fucking boring doing competitive battles and seeing the same pokemon over and over (Salamance, Blissey, lv1 Rattata, Charizard, Rampardos, etc.). I would not at all want this game to be like the pokemon gameboy games, they are fun and amazing, but if you want that, go play those than. I think an MMO version of things would be far more fun.

Again, the system of leveling and movesets and etc, are set up so that you don’t see the same 10-12 pokemon and nothing but those once you hit 100. Stats would be closer, and rely more on gear and what things you choose along the way, and it’ll be based on actual skill.

At the moment, there is such a small amount of skill in gameboy versions. Once you know a strategy, it’s so easy. You spend a bunch of hours EV training cookie cutter pokemon, then you fight their dopplegangers on the net with cookie cutter doppleganger movesets.

I would love to see being able to train your pokemon to be good with certain things. Like, if you train them in a certain stat, they get more moves in that area, and the moves that have to do with that stat become more effective (not just more powerful, but more expansive with more substance). Like quick attack on a regular poke may just attack quickly, but having a speed-based pokemon would also maybe add a second attack, and having a speed-based normal type poke use it may add a status effect (paralysis or something). This would add much more variety to the game.

Instead of 3-4 strategies, you’ll have hundreds, and at 100, you will have to be on your toes all the time.

Also, I added the type based rewards (like looking different at higher levels) to encourage people to not use cookie cutter teams.

And thinking like WoW? Uhm, maybe it’s because this was a post about an MMO, not a solo-adventure game. I brought in things from games like WoW, EQ, Guild Wars, FFXI, and the like because they are part of the genre. If you don’t like long leveling grinds, big communities, non-cookie cutter things, and the like…well, an MMO isn’t for you. Again, I have to stress, this is for a pokemon MMO, not another adventure game (they did that on the gamecube, go play that if that’s what you want).

And I’m not talking about it taking a year to make it to 100, I mean it’d take that long to get your team up there along with yourself, maybe longer. But that would be if you were a casual player. If you play WoW or other MMOs, it can take a year or so to make it to 70 casually playing, but if you’re an avid player, you know it can take only a few months, or weeks if you play many hours a day.

Also, player versus player isn’t going to be the main focus of this game. So balance isn’t the biggest issue to me. PvP will be a part of the game, but it’ll be second to PvE, and story-line based conflict. If you base everything on PvP, than the game will never proceed and grow. You’ll hit 100 and everything will be cookie-cutter. There will be certain ways to be better in PvP than others, but then you will be more gimped when you try the PvE aspects of the game, and the other way around.

You could play the game to 100 without getting a single badge or fighting a single NPC/NPP (Non-playable pokemon), if you stayed in the colosseums, stadiums, arenas, and fight areas for PvP. And then, if you want to go back and do the main storyline, you still can, since you can always breed your pokemon or level up new ones. This way, you can always try each part of the game.

With that in mind, you can’t balance things like they are balanced in the modern gameboy versions, since that would make the game linear towards PvP and nothing else. But then people would not be able to do PvE, Job Leveling (thing I didn’t mention above yet, but people can level and base play around jobs like: contests, breeding, crafting gear, skill training, and etc), and the such. I’d always rather have tiny balance issues spread over everything, rather than huge balance issues in all but one aspect of the game. Earthquake OP in PvP? Well, it’s not very useful in PvE, so if you make it weaker because of PvP, than it’ll become completely useless in PvE. If you make it more powerful for PvE, you’ll make it completely overly OP in PvP. See what I mean?

but yeah the world and how you encounter enemies/people definately needs to be similar to WOW…but thats probably about it…

Yeah, I’m going to add a lot more. I type this out for like 3-4 hours last night. I was on a roll to say the least.

Haven’t read all of it but I have dreamed of a Pokemon MMO for a long time, too… I can’t believe, what, ten years after it first came out I still actually like this series? And want more of it? I’m so ga– Nerdy.